The National
Interview with Matt Berninger
Words: Michael Rabinowitz
Photo: Nicholas Burnham

Appearing:
September 10, 2007
Club Firestone, Orlando

September 11, 2007
Club Downunder, Tallahassee

Humorous, self-effacing non-sequiturs told in a dour Ian Curtis/Nick Cave baritone is one way to describe The National.  Another way is they are the most literary band since The Talking Heads, the most precise bands since Wilco, and the most original since Clap Your Hands Say Yeah.  But, along with Bryan Devendorf, Berninger retains an intimate basement setting while still layering on prog elements of horns and strings.  The lengthy creative process in constructing these tracks is evident in the slow burn appreciation The National encounters.  Both Alligator and this year’s Boxer are “growers,” the dour façade peeling away to slowly reveal Berniger’s (the band’s sole lyricist) brilliant metaphors along with the band’s exact musicianship.  Berninger discussed the songwriting process, the leap toward professionalism, and whether The National is an “academic” band.

REAX:  I just saw your Letterman set on YouTube.  It was a surprise since many of your songs, like the performance of “Fake Empire”, start off so intimate, with just your voice and the drummer.  Do you demo your songs that way to preserve the intimacy?
Matt Berninger: No.  Not really.  The process of a song coming together is totally random and happens a lot of different ways.  Usually it’s like a guitar sketch from Aaron (Dressner) or Bryce (Denvendorf).  It’s really just a slow, slow collaborative process of people trying different things on it, throwing a lot at it, taking away a lot of stuff and tearing it apart. They become central voices in the different songs, depending where they are. “Fake Empire” is a good example of that where the horns are not just icing on the cake, they take the song in a totally different direction. The process of how a song comes together is different every time.  We just noodle around with them until something starts to click.  There is nobody in charge, there is no songwriter.  I write the lyrics but I don’t play any instruments.  It’s a good dynamic.  It’s random and it takes forever and there is a lot of arguing but the egos are pretty balanced out and everybody’s different talents are equally important.

REAX:  The National is part of this Brooklyn music community where a lot of the bands, like Clap Your Hands Say Yeah and The Hold Steady, draw literary influences in their music.  Do you think that the punk aesthetic in indie music of just playing without planning has given way to this more intellectual path that you and these other bands take?
MB: It is really hard to categorize what is literate.  Certain things have been described as literate rock.  It’s always such an odd label because I am not sure what that means.  I think of The Pixies as incredibly literate but I’ve never heard them described that way.  I do read and we are smart guys but we never thought of our band as anything but just guys making rock songs.  That being said, I do work really hard on the lyrics.  And, for songs to last they’ve got to have something you can go back to and enjoy on a lot of different levels.

REAX:  Well, do books influence your writing?
MB: Yeah.  Probably on the same level that movies or TV do.  It’s the little things that feel truthful or engage me on some level.  I’ll scribble it down and maybe I’ll use it.  I write tons and tons of little bits of things.  I’ll use such a small fraction of it and piece it together until I find connections, until I feel the lyrics are working.  But, it’s integral to the music.  I never write without listening to the music that is being developed at the same time.  That’s why we never put our lyrics in the liner notes.  They are just part of the song and without the context of the song I don’t think they work.  It’s just the types of songs we make and the way we write them.  But, I can understand when people say we are a lyrical band.  Maybe it’s because we have a lot of lyrics? (laughs)  I don’t know exactly what it is but it is flattering.  It is really flattering when we are referred to as a smart, academic band. 

REAX:  I just read about the stress the band had while recording “Alligator” as you were quitting your day jobs to become full time musicians.  That being resolved, was there a comfort level during “Boxer” that wasn’t there before?
MB: The question of paying your bills, not having money does cause a lot of anxiety.  I think 99 of all bands never make money at all.  We are just now for the first time getting to the point that we might actually get to pay off some of our bills. When we did have day jobs, all the pressure wasn’t on the band to make any money.  Now that we are recording so much there is no way for us to actually have jobs.  It is a scary thing.  I’m a little wary of having the band be the thing we depend on to pay our bills.  I would hope that wouldn’t affect the way we write songs… the fact that we would need to have a “hit.”  The truth is nobody makes money off record sales.  Unless . . . you’re Justin Timberlake, I think. (laughs)  We are all in our 30’s—I’m 36—and to be in a rock band is scary.  There is no question we aren’t doing the right thing but there is still anxiety about it.  It will be nice if we can get to a point where we aren’t so worried about money.  But, it will be interesting to see how that might affect the songwriting.  Who knows?
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