Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
Interview with Peter Hayes
Words: Michael Rabinowitz
Photos: Tessa Angus

Appearing:
June 9, 2007
Culture Room, Ft. Lauderdale

June 10, 2007
The Social, Orlando

Mixing a blend of troubadour acoustics and boozy heroin sleaze rock, BRMC has made a career of self lament by actually living through it.  Almost losing a band member and then being dropped by their own label for refusing to license their music for a commercial just reaffirmed their own lament on songs with titles like “Sympathetic Noose” and  “Devil’s Waitin’.”  But, sticking to their ideals—and knowing when to compromise them—is what enabled BRMC to come back and release their fourth LP, Baby 81.  Lead guitarist Peter Hayes took time to discuss the band’s resurrection, the politics of the music industry, and where loyalty lies in the relationship between a band and its fans?

REAX:  You apologized, on your website, to the fans for licensing your music to a Pontiac commercial.  Why apologize?
Peter Hayes:  It wasn’t an apology.  It was just an explanation of why we would do that.  And, that’s out of respect for our fans because we feel like our fans respect us for not having done that for the last ten years.  To all of sudden do it out of the blue—or what seems like out of the blue—can seem like, “Oh.  Well, these guys have changed their tune.”  (laughs)  We haven’t really changed our tune since we started.  We’ve been getting offers for that and we ended up turning down something around the area of a couple million.  And things like when Katrina happened we looked at that and went, “Man, if we had something we could pull from it would be great.”  We’ve always thought that was one way we could do it, through advertisements.  Because we don’t feel comfortable living on it and accepting it for ourselves.

REAX:  Why do you think the music belongs to fans as much as you?  It’s a very anti-Dylan stance.
PH:  Yeah.  Yeah, in a way.  I don’t know Bob Dylan’s thing but it comes from a place that . . . we truly believe that.  Its everybody’s and we want to take care of it that way and let people know.  It means a lot to us.  Other people’s music means a lot to us.  I don’t hold it against anybody for doing that even somebody’s music I like.  I don’t hold it against them.  Its just our thing.  We don’t feel comfortable with it and taking.  But we do feel comfortable taking it and . . . our other plan was taking it from a car company and take that money and put it right back into a saving either a forest that they were planning on chopping down for one of their factories or go straight into eco-fuel research.  The little bit of money they do give us (laughs) I don’t think will have much of an affect on that so let’s help out something else, maybe outside of that.

REAX:  And that’s where the Katrina victims came up?
PH:  Yeah, that’s where the idea goes.  Something like that.  That there is also this other thing we are starting to get involved in.  Trying to stop this slave trade of poor people around the world getting abused by—I don’t know—governments actually.  People trading people around the world, being for sex or cheap labor.  There is a whole trade of it going on.  Trying to get involved in that and helping a little bit.

REAX:  Does it matter if you “sell out” anymore?  Do fans still care? 
PH:  That’s the other thing.  It’s changed.  The world has changed (laughs), as far as that goes.  As far as in the business is considered . . . I mean, that is why we got in trouble with our first record company.  One of the reasons they let go of us, happily—you know we asked to be let go too—was they thought, “What the hell are you thinking?  This is how it is done.  You give your music to this stuff and it’s free publicity and blahdy-blah.”  They’re thinking this is going to help record sales and that’s the thing, they are in the business of selling records.  They don’t really care how it’s heard.  Which makes sense.  That’s their job.  That became a real sore subject.  So, things have changed.  Record companies supported bands before.  It’s completely different now.  That’s nowhere in the building.  (laughs)  I mean, they kind of understand and go, “Well, you’re stupid.”  (laughs)  Then “F.U. for taking our money and not working with us.”

REAX:  Is that what the new song “Lien on Your Dreams” is about?  There seems to be quite a few symbolic references to money and emotions and ideals on the new album, like on another Baby 81 track, “Took Out A Loan.”
PH:  Yeah, there’s a little bit of that.  Its just living in a world that is consumed by it.  The last point I wanted to make with that is . . . (long pause) its partially the musicians fault for the reason why music is not respected.  Its not respected as an art form, as something that is important in our culture.  To be able to have power to talk with people, for people, and to people.  It effects change in the world around us.  And part of that is the musician’s fault for coming out and like “Thanks for buying my record.”  The next you see is showing off their 16 cars and their mansions.  That’s not what its supposed to be about.  And that’s awful.   

REAX:  Are you surprised that we live in a more turbulent time than the 1960’s yet, unlike the 60’s, American music is still so superficial with no political or independent thought at all?
PH:  I don’t understand where that comes from, necessarily.  It seems like the punk message got destroyed somewhere along the way and it turned into, “It’s supposed to be about nothing and fuck it all.  Who gives a shit.  Take your money and run.”  That seems to be the new punk.  It doesn’t really have anything to do with George Bush.  I was getting that feeling with Clinton, if you were talking about governments or whatever.  It’s been going down that road for a while.  That’s the cool thing to do, to say “Fuck it.”  Um . . . I don’t believe that’s where punk came from, at least my version of punk anyways.  There are a lot of versions of what rock n’ roll means, but that’s not my version.  That seems like a government friendly version.  (laughs)  Like that’s what they want you to be.  The government wants you to be concerned with making a buck and getting out of their way. 

REAX:  Is there a thin line that BRMC walks when making music about political dissention? 
PH:  Yeah, absolutely.  I’ll make it clear now.  I’ve made it clear in other interviews.  Its us.  Its for us.  Our ideals are ours.  If anybody feels the same way, great.  That’s what we’re looking for is community.  Anybody is kind of a looking for a community of people that feel the same way.  We don’t want to assume it on anyone else.  That’s freedom.  (laughs)  We are not here to drill anybody in the head with our ideas.  That’s not what’s it about.  Going the either way, if someone was to able to open our eyes to something different, then great.  If we are able to open somebody else’s eyes to another way of doing it, then cool.  Its not about preaching.  Its just about living it and have that be seen. 

REAX:  There is a caustic antagonistic narration in Baby’s lyrics toward a vague antagonist, whether it be a woman, an avarice, or even the government.  Is there anything or anyone in particular you are directing your scorn to? 
PH:  I just think as humans we are all that.  We all have the capability of being that.  We all are capable of becoming money hungry little shits that don’t give a fuck about anybody and could care less about our neighbor and the rest of the world.  You know, selfish.  A lot of that stuff is directed at that part in ourselves.  You get that out and you put light on it.  That way its not the little demon in there running wild.  You got to shine a little light on it to remember that its there.  We are all capable of destroying.  

REAX:  One word keeps popping up when you read reviews of “Baby 81”: confident.  Did the success of “Howl” lend itself to this confidence? 
PH:  It had a lot to do with Howl.  When we were done with that album, we sat back and went: “Oh, fuck.  I hope we are able to make records again.”  (laughs)  If it was across the board: “What the fuck is this?  These guys are a bunch of pretentious jackasses.”  We saw where it could have gone if people wanted to go down that road and our fans the same way.  It really would’ve closed the doors.  Of course, we would still be trying to play music but it would’ve closed a lot of doors.  And it was really amazing how it didn’t close any doors.  And most of that was from our fans.  That was the point of it.  We were always trying to live beyond the headlines which were: “Motorcycle Trio Save Rock n’ Roll” thing.  We were trying to live past that.  It’s more important than headlines and the leather clad (laughs) thing.  It was great.  Not really confidence but it gave us a belief in music and that people are listening.  On the second record there is the song “Generation.”  It was like “no one really listens, nothing is really there.”  After Howl it was like people do listen, people do care.  It’s still there.  That’s great.

REAX:  You wrote all of Howl’s songs before the dispute with Virgin and Nick Jago (the drummer) taking leave, but when listening to the album and knowing what you went through, the songs seem pitch perfect.  They are all about seeking redemption.  Are you surprised at how prophetic those songs ended up becoming? 
PH:  It works out that way.  You can’t help but see that and feel it a bit.  Its always strange how that happens a little bit.  I think it happens to a lot of musicians.  You right a song and not really sure what it means.  You might have kind of an idea.  Then, years later, you end up living the song.  “Awww! That’s what that means!”  (laughs)  I see that as the guiding path.  It kind of lets you know you’re still doing what you’re supposed to be doing. 

REAX:  Howl had this accoustic feel like you guys were street troubadours.  Is that where your roots are? 
PH:  Yeah, actually.  When I was 17, my dad would give me money to take the train—I lived in Northern California—take the train to school.  I would take that money and buy cigarettes and take my guitar to the train station and just play songs, try and get that money back to get on that train.  (laughs)  That’s the literal street thing but other than that I always been kind of the belief—all of the tricks of the delays and all the distortion, that’s all nice and great but if you don’t have a . . . shit, if all the power goes out, what’ve you got?  You got to have an accoustic guitar.  That’s the back up plan.  If anything goes wrong, you can make a little money and eat hopefully. 

REAX:  I can imagine it really keeps you nimble having to know how to play a song any which way.
PH:  We’ve put that thought out there and I don’t know if the universe is listening and sure test us a lot with it.  (laughs)  Like, “Oh yeah.  You think that?  How about the whole PA goes away?”  It happens all the time, man.  (laughs)

REAX:  BRMC came out in 2000, along with The Strokes.  Do you feel the road BRMC has taken helps insulate you guys from backlash, like that was directed toward The Strokes?  It seems the industry views you as underdogs and a lot of people are rooting for you.
PH:  (laughs)  Um. . . uh . . . yeah, you know. . . (long pause)  That’s nice to here.  I don’t know the difference in our paths.  The only difference that I saw was the . . . it’s hard to live up, like I said, to the headlines.  That’s where I think the business is a little tricky.  It’s great to be talked about.  It’s great to be in the press and have your pictures in the magazines and all that.  (long pause)  It’s a strange thing.  I don’t understand why it’s so easily (sigh) . . . I don’t really understand where that comes from.  If you like a band, then you like them and you stick with them through whatever they’re going to do.  They may make a shitty album compared to what you like, compared to anybody.  But that is just you.  I don’t understand why it goes from this love and admiration to, “Oh. Just shitty shitty.  We’re going to never talk about them.”  It’s strange.  That’s not taking care of art.  You know what I mean?  That’s about sensationalism.  That’s the fault of . . . I don’t know. . . people in the press.  It’s got to be a little more friendly to. . . I’m not saying . . . (sigh) It’s hard to explain, but that’s just looking at it from the outside.  One, the band has got to live past that for that to happen.  And, it’s happened throughout time.  But, two, I think that’s something that needs to be taken care of in a different way.  If you are fan of music you should be . . . yeah, you got to watch out for that stuff.  (laughs)  I try not to think about it too much.  I’ll just rack my head with it. (laughs)